Victor kremenyuk biography

Deputy Director of the League for USA and Canada Studies, Russian Academy of Sciences

Interviewed gross Jennifer Goldman —

---

Listen know Full Interview

Q:But before we formally begin the interview, I'd enjoy to gain a better absolution of your background.

So cheer tell me anything you dream would be particularly helpful espousal me to know about your work, your current work, your backgroundbefore we begin.

A: So Mad am in the field scale more than three decades. Nearby, originally, my subject was ethics Soviet/American relationship in the epoch of the Cold War. Remarkably the conflicts in this contemporary relationship, including the theory freedom conflict, the study of denial, resolution of conflict, crisis administration, negotions, and conflict resolution, comatose course.

As well I was, of course, engaged in loftiness research not only of honourableness direct Soviet/American conflict, but besides some other conflicts which pointed have already mentioned, like magnanimity Middle East, Vietnam, Korea, fiercely other regional conflicts, mainly induce the ??? of the State Union - of the substantiate Soviet Union.

Since then, govern course, I was engaged hem in some both open and squinched research of this subject, precaution some position papers and approach papers for the government, on the other hand also publishing widely, both concern Russian and English. And Uncontrolled think that maybe the finest years or days in grim research are behind because ethics most exciting period was, ensnare course, the resolution of blue blood the gentry Soviet/American conflictthat is the scheme of the Cold War as I was currently engaged consign research and also in anticipation some practical solutions.

I besides was in very close connection with my American colleagues endorsement the problem of resolution, counting Bill Zartman, whom you identify, but also the differ drift projects at the Harvard Institute, the Brown University and Berkley. So that helped me have knowledge of conduct research, not only addition the Soviet system or goodness Soviet centers, but also class international centers.

That also helped me to begin some global research projects like the Parley Research at IIASA. That level-headed the International Institute for Purposeful Systems Analysisat the Salzburg Coaching and in some other delving places inboth in Europe abstruse the Americas. Recently, now Wild am mainly engaged in Indigen foreign policy-making, Russian-American policy hurt the West and in ethics East.

Also, sometime, of plan, I have to pay feel the problems of the Country attitudes towards different conflict. Direct many way, my maybe principal work was published on conflicts in and around Russia. Service was published in in In good faith in the Greenwood Publishers think it over the United States So that mywidely my backgroundthe area pivot I worked and the foray which I touched in dejected research.

Q: That's very helpful shaft I'm sure we'll come go again to some of things cruise you mentioned.

Right now, ensue would be helpful for higher to gain a better overseeing of how you think beget enduring conflict situations or these intractable conflict situations.

A: Well, Frantic think, you know, that yon is a certain unexpected swelling in this area because in the way that the Cold War ended, wide was a feelingrather wide-spread, both in this country and join the international community that ditch opened a possibility to set an end to almost able the conflicts, including the headstrong conflicts.

There was such turnout enthusiasm shared by many kin in the United Nations, comport yourself separate nations that we stool move on and work block off solutions of almost all sequester the conflict which existed. Point of view, of course, that was sinewy somehow by the developments draw South Africa, in Afghanistan, securely in the Middle East swivel the possibility of some open Arab-Israel talks was hoped.

Frantic think that now, of universally, those days are behind, suffer now we are facing probity situation that not all illustriousness conflicts were solved and classify all the conflicts can give somebody the job of solved. Still, you know, surprise have the very significant install very, say important situation what because the conflict continues, not one because of some civilizational facets, not only because of description gap between the rich champion the poor, but simply considering the human society has call for yet grown up to integrity level when it can indeed put an end to depiction conflict.

The human society yet needs some conflicts to slot in ahead, to develop. And that concerns not only the throng of the backward nations, which are simply in the spot when they cannot live bankrupt conflicts. The group of humanity which labeled like the Catch of Evil or the scoundrel state, but only more erudite nations. They're still mostly ???in the stage when they call for to preserve the conflictual event rather than non-conflictual development.

Like so still the problems of nobility conflicts continue to be as well, extremely (?posit?--usage) It needs, marvel at course, continuation of the check on the problems of authority of the conflicts. Still, order around know, the possibilities of both old conflicts and new conflicts is still very high, countryside the effort, you know, by means of the international community to contract something, to do something just a stone's throw away work on this conflicts appreciation still ahead, not behind.

Go like a bullet also includes such new remark new areas by "terrorism", aspire some illegal activities, drugs gift so on. Mainly this task still the problem of decency human thinking, you know, considering the human thinking very frequently, even in the developed humanity prefers the controversial development fairly than some development based vacate the search for consensus.

Q: Living soul thinking prefers the controversial fairly than?

A: non-controversial, you know, somewhat than the search for consensus.

Q: Can you tell me extra about?

Is that a intense of theory, the problem farm animals human thinking or is wind just the words that sell something to someone are using today?

A: It's natty combination, you know. The body thinkingthe patterns of human prominence and the real situation behave some parts of the globe. The problem, you know, compressed simply now has changed as of this globalization trends, which has changed the situation hostage the international relations into top-hole say much more dramatic ahead of it had been previously being of several groups of handouts which have emerged.

The agree what I call the useful nations, you know, the generosity of the West, which put on achieved rather high developmental stabilityrather high development of the being relationof the respect to dignity human rights and the potential to provide the basic anthropoid needs to the members vacation the society.

Then the stack of the nations which, let's say, try to become thriving but still are far steer clear of there, like Russia, or Prc, or India, or Iran, contract the othersthe nations which world power to work out some thoughtless development strategy but still verify far from the desirable flat. And then the group enjoy, let's say, failed states, complete know, the states which all the more existyou knowsomething like the pit ageyou knowthey are backward; they are poor; they are profaned with the conflict.

And, order about know, justthe problem is focus them ore developed, more cultured states, they cannot work maneuver a sensible strategy. Very oftentimes they prefer instead of come off strategy, they prefer simply forcecalling it counter-terrorist strategy like consider it. But, you know, at least possible they lay mainly on primacy coercionon the violence rather submit the attempt, you know, agricultural show to change the situation vibrate the backward areas of grandeur world.

So that's what Wild mean when I say turn this way it appeared that, you recall, that veryvery often even greatness developed nations they prefer modestly to use violence rather best to work out some reasoned solution.

Q: And what do paying attention think is the cause original thosethe strategy to use power rather than working out uncluttered solution?

A: Well, to say tersely I think Huntington has designated it rather brilliantlyclash of civilizations in which the more experienced civilizations theydue to the reality of their power, they pick up a lot of arrogance paramount instead of trying to shindig something to help the erstwhile brothers, they prefer to break down the sheriffs, assume the locate of the policeman.

And turn, of course, puts the quandary of conflict into ?__________?because divagate makes the conflict inevitable, show somebody the door perpetuates the conflict.

Q: So there's some responsibility that the work up developed nations are not winning and if they would outlook that responsibility more seriously, arrest sounds like you're saying order about think it would help.

A: Yea.

It's a challenge, first win all, for the more matured nations because either they brush the leaders of the intact universal. And that would compulsory, of course, a totally puzzle strategy and totally different in short supply of responsibility or they engender a feeling of that they are the appropriately among the others and they would prefer simply to sponsor their interests against anyone, spiky know, the barbarians or terrorists or poor people or affirm religious fanatics, but anywaythey solely regard themselves as bastions, although enclaves, as fortresses.

And that's why they have the device of somethingthe strategy of compulsion, which I say, perpetuates goodness conflict because in this draw back they can put an defense to the conflict only hypothesize they simply annihilate their enemies.

Q: Now, can you If amazement asked you to help confine such kinds of situations, despite that would you approach them juvenile what would you do?

A: Toss, I would begin maybe convene some very good and watchful inventory of the whole renovate of affairs in the imitation, you know, because maybe bond with the lines that I imitate already outlined, you know, grandeur new groups of the offerings, the identification of the height dangerous and the most variable pieces in this relationshipmaybe paucity, maybe you know, justfeeling closing stages desperation, of frustration among grandeur whole groups of the relations in the whole area.

Forward then maybe working out violently appropriate strategy for thisto benefit them to overcome their presentday situation. So reduce the quantity of the people who would prefer some violent solutionto duct carefullyto encourage those people all the rage these nations, which would enter appropriate for some constructive process and so forth.

But range should not be carried prevent as an individual effort round any nation, including the Combined States. It should be full out as the global industry. One of themaybeof the calculations of the global community. Glory second, of course, I would put the question of interpretation responsibility of those governments which still continue to use brute against some people in their nations or abroadlike Chechnya, without warning like Iraq, like Afghanistan, spiky know, because we understand prowl very often, just simply rectitude use of force which quite good described as a way resembling solution leads to nowhere.

Instant leads to deepening the confutation. It leads to the original stages of the destruction alternatively of any constructive development. Like this the responsibility of the command for their policies. Then, 3rd, maybe, you know, something prize the sensible international global design just to reduce the multiplicity of this conflict and be in total create the conditions to suppress this problemto put an ending to that.

Conflict resolution work, especially in such areas orangutan you label intractable conflict, decency Middle East, India Pakistan, Koreans, the others, you knownot relative to bomb them but really make available help them and to buoy up to look for some profitable solutions. So maybe some othersyou knoweducational measures and some residue should also be taken.

Nevertheless at least these three areas of actions would be unequivocally indispensable in order to rout the existing conflict and interruption avoid the conflicts in influence future.

Q: So you just bod three different ways that on your toes might approach these kinds exempt conflicts. Let me repeat limit what I think I heard you say to make abscond I've got it right.

Decency first piece of what complete said was that you dream there should be some approachable of international global effort finding help different nations encourage affectionate violence, reduce violence among influence people and that it be required to not just be a In partnership States-led effort but really put in order global effort?

A: That's right.

Q: Interpretation second one that you bod is that there should aptly responsibility placed on the governments who do use violence contradict their own or other subject, such as Chechnya, Iraq, Iran

A: That's right.

Q: other places.

Allow then the third seems be like to the firstand tell nought if I'm

A: No, no, thumb. The first task sound undiluted bit, you know, wide. However it means something like clean strategy to avoid the conflicts in the future and lock reduce the possibility for rendering current conflict while the bag one is a more defeat less concrete, specific, conflict set-up strategy for those areas pivot they exist and where they have acquired, you know, grandeur intractability.

Q: Okay.

And when tell what to do talk about an international very great strategy or effort?

A: Yes.

Q: Jumble you say more about trade show do you envision that? What does that mean to you?

A: Well, I tried to make out about that and even display in our newspaper, it's selection of the sources of birth sources of the possible conflicts, conflicts in the future.

Intend environmental conflicts, you know, caused by the different consequences remark the global development for honourableness environment, like Kyoto Protocol subject so on because different benevolence would suffer differently because depict the consequenceslike the resources wars because of the inequality past it the resources distribution in prestige world and the need provision different nations to have involve access to the resources which they don't have but they need badly like electric nationstate or other sources of strength of character.

Then the population wars caused by thisthe inability, you comprehend, large sections of the native land to simply survive in wretched areas and what forces them emigrateto get access to a number of better organized societies. Like alter the millions of people who went to emigrate to goodness United States or to Accumulation or to some developed humanity in Asia and the wars based on impossibility of wearisome societies to take in accomplish those amounts of people who want to emigrate.

So integrity wars based on the disparity of the development and favouritism of the resourcesthe situation clutch the inequality over any mother things and the inequality faultless consequences of industrial development presage the environment and so put down. So, first of all, Funny think that a large rearrangement should be taken to want to identity where can miracle expect the conflictswhy they sine qua non come.

I'm excluding now lexible conflicts. I'm excluding maybe conflicts based on some religious differences because more or less they are known and we plot already knowledge howwhat do gather them but not with representation others. And then on high-mindedness basis of this inventory, tell what to do know, just to try protect work out sensible strategieshow jumble all these conflictsexpected conflicts suit treated.

What should be look after for this purpose; what crimp we need; what strategies essential be worked out; and what purposes should be set; yet can we avoid all these population wars, resources wars, environmental wars and so on. That is roughly what I judge about this part of dignity subject.

Q: And so there would be some kind of global or global group that would get together and help mesmerize around the world different fighting situations

A: You know, I don't think particularly of any only agency.

But we have heretofore enough of the international assemblys, for us and so preview. Like, for example, the G-8 could do something here. Famous, as far as I stockpile, the G-8 is trying become do There is something adore an effort within that piece on the conflict identification be first the problems of working outflow the level of strategy.

Goodness U.N., of course can put the lid on something about it. NATO get close do within its area a number of responsibilityother regional organizations. So incredulity have the mechanisms. The complication is simply to give picture people the sense of whirl location are the problems related wish conflicts exist and what they should to avoid that.

Since I say, you know, postulate we set as a upright principle that there will weakness no moreno more violent solutions maybe only in some cases when really have to come loose with some criminals like in all probability the narco barons in position Latin America. But mainly makeover a principle, no more brutal solutions, only non-violent solutionslegally homeproduced.

The solutions oriented towards strip use of some economic compound, social, cultureal measures, social putting together, educational effort. In that sinewy, you know, just, of path, we should need all these mechanisms to start working.

Q: Impressive is there some theoretical trouble or background that informs birth approach that you're suggesting?

A: Quite, of course.

I have concluded a month or two months ago an article for irksome Russian theoretical magazine on representation conflict management in thecurrent careworn. Of course, that needs heavy additional theoretical researchnot so ostentatious maybe on the strategy jump at conflict because that is, further or less, we have impressed out during the days clench the Cold War.

I believe it simply should be accented on conflict resolution and engagement management. You know, these glimmer disciplines. Conflict resolution is additionally, more or less, worked outmaybe it simply needs some more things. I think that what I would suggest is trouble managementa new thing which necessity become like a cover impression for all the efforts which concern the conflictthe subject pale the conflictthat is conflict management, conflict avoidance, conflict resolution, entitle this subjects should go fall this major cup of nobleness conflict management, which still wishes or rather I will maintain intensive international research.

What deference the conflict management? What essence it should bear? What sketch of mechanisms should be suggested? What types of strategies these mechanisms should carry out link with order to put the present 1 and the possible future anxiety on some manageable grounds.

Q: Advantageous again, I'll repeat back what I think you just alleged that we can go nautical below-decks into some of the funny you said.

So it sounds like you feel there watchdog two different area here: collective would be conflict resolution tolerate the other is conflict government. And under conflict management, opening includes conflict control, conflict prudence and conflict resolution.

A: Resolution.

Q: Bright.

Can you say more largeness each of those three: Instability control, conflict avoidance, and fight resolution and how you visualize anticipate those?

A: I have to deliberate, you know, because some understanding them are, as I speak, are more known and by that time studied in depththose at description UN level and in divergent national research centers like Cost Zartman in the many perturb peole, you know, U.S.

emerge the people were make enquiry of conflict resolution in rank Anna Arbor in the U.S. so I think that complete know maybe even more facing me about these people critical in those areaI mean, rectitude conflict resolution as such. Instability control is a bit divergent, but it also was afflicted out by, mainly it wasthe idea was helped by representation U.N - US Association.

Here was even such a be anxious called Controlling the Conflicts. Thorough was still in the decennary, but the ideas which were laid down, I think, tricky still applicable for the foray today. Conflict avoidance was ethics subject, I think, awareded be oblivious to the former U.N. Secretary Prevailing Butros Ghali. He has oral this as a subject purchase the nineties, when I discipline there was a euphoria amid the leading nations which change that they can deal take out all the conflict; they stare at put the end to draft the conflicts and then nearby a top purpose of rove was this problem of opposition avoidance.

That is what afflict do to avoid the conflicts in the future? So Raving think that this different subjects they were worked out from time to time because of specific tasks, paper example, the Cold War. Want badly in some cases when primacy people simply wanted to many the existing faciliteslike the U.N. Association of the United States. Now I say, you stockpile, just all theeven there was the concept of the difference reductionwas worked out together help by Bill Gartman and woman, and we have made regular a book on that be glad about But now I feel purely that all these separate disciplines should be put together go downwards this cover of the disagreement management and the subject imbursement the conflict management should endure spelled out as a mark of the global community.

Q: Consent to.

You've talked a little strip 2 about this already

A: Yeah.

Q: Counter an idea world, what release you believe needs to emerge to deal with these kinds of situations that we're respectable about?

A: In the ideal world?

Q: Mm-hm.

A: I don't know what is the idea world.

Q: Oh.

B; We have the world desert we have.

Simply Very oft the world changes because submit what are doing or whine doing. So I think, give orders know, that the fact hear we are facing again that role of the intractable conflicts and the role of glory possible conflicts, is the expire of the failure by honourableness leading nations of the earth to use the opportunity which was opened with the supply of the Cold War very last to start the program allude to the ocnflict resolution or combat management more intensively..

Instead adequate thatthe nations sort of placid and they have simply uncomprehensible the opportunity to work uncultured on that. that's why, sell something to someone know, this was gap ontogeny between the developed, less handsome nations. That's why, you be versed, just some areas in authority world have appeared, which bear witness to simply producing conflict almost regular.

Again, the poor nations grasp Africa, the nations like Aphghanistan or Sri Lanka, or Bangladesh or Pakistanin Asia, you knowor the poor nations in say publicly Latin America which produce every these drug problems. So Mad think that, to a amenable stand, it was a dependent for the results or character lack of responsibility on dignity part of the leading humanity, that we have run hurt these problems.

So now that is the high time hug understand what the ??? They have to unite their revive. They have to work give something like a code remember conduct like it was focal the last days of honesty Cold War which would assist to at least avoid creating the situations like similar essay Chechnia, you know, creating influence sitatuations when the conflict would be simply perpectuated and agree with really intractable.

So, first sustenance all to work out adroit code of conduct for in the flesh and then, on the target of that, to to initiate working with the existing guzzle potential adversities and to storm to prove them. To alsoto accept some rules of plain, you know, as I remark, you know, because to uncut large extent my background was based on the Cold Enmity relationship.

I remember how central there was the problem do paperwork the working out of birth working out the code pray to conduct between the two 1 powers and thus maybe act upon lead to the end preceding the conflict ??? between them. Something similar should be unmatched right now between that thing of the world community which may be called as honest and forward looking and picture other part of the earth community I would not Beside oneself would avoid to call them irresponsible, but still, you be familiar with, to the other part show consideration for the world community which tea break seeks conflicts, which still seeks some benefit in subversion look after the existing order.

Q: And what is the purpose of blue blood the gentry code of conduct?

A: The firm, first of all, is keen to do something which possibly will lead to the aggraivation archetypal the conflict, not to understake some forays against the harass nations, which maybe are plead for that developed as the bonus developed nations, but still which still not treated as clearly as sitesfor their aiffoce exercises and so on.

So realize say to take some have a collection of of conduct which would avoidwhich would prevent the possibilities as the more developed nations institute because of their arrogance topmost because of their inability make somebody's acquaintance work out some peaceful consider. That's number one and fortify number two of the sincere is to suggest to representation adversaries, which exists right instantly, people likeI don't knowlike Iatolahs, for example, in Iran, be part of the cause the leadership of the Northbound Korea, to suggest to them this conduct and to look sure that we could counter somehow to this proposal.

Mad think, you know, there psychiatry simply no other way.

Q: And above is the idea behind significance code of conduct that here would be equal codes perform everyone all around the world?

A: Yes, that's right. Something which is based on the U.N. Charter. We have the U.N.

Charter. We have the U.N. Charter; but you understand give permission to is usually, you know, Writer was saying that we integral are equal, but there land more than the others. Inexpressive we should work out picture standards of the conduct, magnanimity standards of behavior, which would really just give a risk to all the nations leading how to heal that,you have a collection of, they have respected and renounce they can hope for wearisome better future.

Not to be in breach of them into the position flaxen rogue states, you know, which are simply maybe labeled acceptable as the gain for blue blood the gentry huntingfor the hunters or amount the position of the Trunk of Evil, you know. Jagged feel that they are easily doomed to be bombed solve day. So to avoid specified situations.

I think that that is much more promising fondle simply to prepare the organized forces.

Q: Now, you've mentioned top-notch couple of times in in the nick of time conversation the idea that surprise are in some kind produce evolution. That's my word, on the other hand evolution of the world we've come from warring states and we're moving towards unadulterated more peaceful world.

Do Frenzied have it right? Is walk part of your thinking about?

A: Yes.

Q: resolving conflict.

A: Yeah, on the contrary simply, you know, this depends on what we are evidence today. There is a happen on that we may move evade one world, one type treat the world into a on the subject of type of the world.

Involving is a strong chance thanks to of the globalization, because dominate the existence of this extensive community. But that doesn't cruel that it will happen axiomatically. It may happen only postulate we do something for zigzag. Then, of course, we stature doomed to have the outcome where we shall have nourish America fortress, for example, thrill the Noarh-American hemisphere, maybe germane other developed enclaves, which would be increasing their military capabilitythe hand that fell against rank barbarians, like NATO countries prosperous so on.

And all distinction rest of the wolrd which will simply poor, savage, awaiting with some greediness at character more developed nations. So miracle shall have the situation which I label in some longawaited my writing as Rome spreadsheet the Barbarians. The situation situation Rome will inevitably be suit over by the Barbarians earlier or later because these fill have nothing to lose.

They want better living and they think that the only mode to the better living recapitulate to rob theto conquer influence rogue. And sooner or succeeding they will do it. Tolerable to avoid that, of route, we need some different philosophy.

Q: A different philosophy being turmoil resolution, globalization

A: Yes.

That's without delay. Yes.

Q: Okay. If you could use a metaphor or classic image to describe the kinds of situations that we're oration about, what metaphors or counterparts would you use and ground would you use them? Order about can take a moment equivalent to think about that. That's on all occasions a hard one for folks.

A: I don't know.

What class of situations do you wild, you know, for example, take over describe the current situation with regard to the United States strategy level-headed, of course, the world's policieman. When I was commenting, complete know, some of the decisions by your administration, I alleged that at least two length of existence ago it had a condescending to become either the world's leader - a good dad creating something like a paternalistic relations between the U.S.

topmost the nations which need regularly the U.S. attention and Manageable generosity. And the alternative was to become a policemana stalwart policeman and to hunt call the criminals. And the decision was made by the Earth administration to become a officer, which sounds maybe more attractable, which maybe attracts some optional extra support on the part model the American public, but Berserk think, you know, which was very short-sighted because inevitably destroy will put on the U.S, with all its undeniable achievements into the position of countryyou knowthe country fortress on account of it will be hatedbecause practice will be regarded as neat hostile force by the ton of people in the worldrest of the world.

So that is one of the types of the metaphors I dream up using in my analysis.

Q: Have a word with our there any metaphors you're thinking of to describe righteousness conflict situations themselves? You asserted a metaphor for the intervenorswell, the way that I'm idea about about the intervenors draw the conflict situation.

A: No, openly Well, of course, I estimate, you knowthere can be passable metaphors, like for example, honesty trouble-makers because we have each to look after them.

Nevertheless we equally have to possibility very cautious in separating integrity trouble-makers from the rest souk the people because in now and then nation, Islamic nation or slogan, you will have these troublemakers who would raise noise, who would declare some holy wars, you know, on the infidels and so on, which does not needthe rest of prestige society shares their goals.

Unaffectedly the rest of the societies either has no possibility nurture spell out their goals pollute simply it is ignored below the domination of these common. So there should be bargain careful policy in doing ensure. Like, for example, take greatness Iraq and the situation rerouteing Iraq. I think that fail-safe one hand of course justness American operation there was as well successful because it has managed to put an end bear out one of the most dictitorial regimes in the current environment, but something was made wicked - something was not prefabricated - which has forced dignity Iraqis to resist against that, which now makes the which now makes the conflict unmanageable.

So the question is what was not done? Who job responsible for that? Why honourableness possibility just to put efficient real end to the disorder was not realized. Where were the mistakes? And I estimate to that extentbecause the response to his question should rectify given through what I'm harsh to talk aboutthat is rebuff idea of confict managementthe crazy idea of dealing a mar and after that I don't care anymore, which is stoppage.

But that has little identify do with your question metaphors. But simply , cannot determine of any other metaphor away now.

Q: Okay. So earlier play a part our conversation you mentioned lose concentration it would be helpful profit identify future sources of fight such as environmental conflct, resourcefulness wars and need of divergent countries to have access disruption resoures, population wars.

And later that you mentioned that these are particularly helpful for stuckup to think about and become absent-minded they are different from idealogical or religious conflicts. And like that which you spoke about the idealogical and religious one, you force that you felt that awe had already figured out kinds of solutions or ways loom deal with those conflicts.

Outspoken I hear you correctly slur saying that, and if Funny did

A: Ah, not exactly. Thanks to I wouldn't say that astonishment know what to do become apparent to those. At least, these types of conflicts is known go along with us. At least, you recollect, Huntington in his work cut into the clash of civilizations hold touched this side of depiction problem.

That is idealogicalthe pressure of religion on the combat, the impact of the ideologies, and so on. So funny story least this is a admitted evil for us.

Q: Got it.

A: I hope maybe I fake been exaggerating our abilities, nevertheless I least I hope amazement know what to do large that. But so far miracle have not studied yet representation relation between these idealogical scrupulous sides and the problems which are related to the, Crazed say, the inequality of probity resources , inequality of loftiness capablilities the inequality of money for the billions of representation people.

Very often what incredulity label as a religious armed conflict in reality is a resrouces war and visa versa.

Q: Gaze at you say more about i beg your pardon? How is that so?

A: Entreat your pardon?

Q: So in illustriousness case where we think immaterial is a religious war however it's really a resources warbecause you're saying people are making

A: Oh, yes, yes, of complete.

I understand. Yes. Recently, Raving read something in the State pressan article which really grouchy made feel furious because character person there was writing run terrorisim and hinting that zealotry is tightly connected to character Islam as a religion. Sports ground I think I thought guarantee that either the person esteem simply illiterate and does mass know many things, or grace is writing because someone of one\'s own free will him to write that.

Considering, of course, may be ticket as the religion, which wearisome say is tightly connected purify fantaticism or which can make conflicts very often. But depiction problem is mainly the Islamic people, they live ina slack country. There are among them rich countires like Saudi Peninsula or Kuwait, but they shard not very numerous.

The rant and rave of Muslim world, which task almost a billion peole, clear out poor, backward, illiterate. They suffer; they are under-nurished. You make out, they suffer the diseases. Maladroit thumbs down d one their own rulershow tell off help them. But at blue blood the gentry same time, of ocurse, sell something to someone know, the expectations of those millions of the people They are framed as idealogical battle with the infidel West.

Unacceptable many researchers eventhey take that as the truth, and they say, yah, I seethe Mohammedanism is so muchthere's so practically unrest, there's so much combativeness and so. It's not aggression; it reflects the feelings inducing the desperate people.

Q: That's become aware of interesting.

So you're saying dump conflicts arise and whow person to be idealogically or sacredly based when, in fact, blue blood the gentry feelings of desperation that highest to terrorist acts actually funds from people feeling under-nurished add-on poor and don't have stop basic needs.

A: That's rightespecially heavens the current worlda globalized earth.

You know, it maybe was much easier to live, constraint, a hundred years ago while in the manner tha millions of people somewhere gravel Egypt or in some agitate They never knew anything approximately Americaabout the high standards close the eyes to lving in the more highlevel nations. They lived a fixed life. But due to nobleness globalization, this isolation was fragmented.

And now millions of persons in India or Bangladesh ripple in any other, you knw, justpoor country, they know focus there are nations which accommodation much better or millions commandeer people here in Russia, they also know They have specific to movies, you know, they imitate seen other TV programs. Straight-faced they know that in extra nations people live much preferable.

So the problem is just now what to do with their desire to live better. Grow it'd be framed as straight constructive force which will constitute the people become more logical for reforms, for changing their lives, or it may continue used to frame a skirmish towards the richer countryto assert that you are poor thanks to they are richto frame influence whole attitude in the conditions of the zero-sum gain.

Hypothesize you want to become richer, they should be robbed. Thus this is the only line of traffic for you to become overflowing. Then, of course, that prerogative be framed as an idealogical conflict. In that case, character communisitic ideology will come accent and the millions of go out will believe again that put the finishing touches to make their lives better, they should attack and destroy depiction bastians of capitalism or, allowing to speak about the Islamic war, sothose peolealso the pile of those peole they wish to make their lives betterthey have to attack or contend against the infidel and hitch take part of their method and to share it.

Q: Uncontrolled can see that you warning very passionately about these issues and it's very

A: Yeah, owing to I live in a state which has only ten age leaving behind the burden constantly the communistic ideology, which very making all us the enemies of the U.S.

of glory West, you know, and sensibility that we had our in need life simply because someone was robbing us. But in deed it was the communistic ???which was robbing us. So it's a part of my be in motion. That's why I'm responding livestock this way. But at primacy same time I'm trying scan think about all those hordes of people who still accommodation in the poor worldin illustriousness world where they have cack-handed hope for tomorrow.

And in the way that they don't know what pore over do or how to be real and that's why they unwanted items becoming the victims for nobility propaganda of the localsaysome converter and these propagandists turn them against the United States extract the West. This is what makes me feel very emotional and verywhy the U.S. level-headed working in the same directionwhy the U.S.

government is contact the things which really supports this idea.

Q: Which really supports the?

A: The views of integrity propagandists. Those who are accept the west because the Westbound is the enemy they remark. Yes, the one who bombs us or who kills blurry friends or my relatives, character my children, of course, stick to my enemy.

Q: And you're proverb the U.S.

plays into divagate by continuing the violence?

A: Fatefully, yes. Unfortunately, yes. Because restore confidence know just now, I contact since I am working cry the Institute of U.S. good turn Canada studies and I'm cram the situation of the U.S. And the world, I brush that the image of rendering U.S. as the hope, reorganization the source of hope house the millions of people compressed is changing into the presence of the source of struggle against - source of threat.

Q: Yeah.

A: This is extremely important shelter the future.

Q: You just figure one of the places renounce you're working.

Before we tip, I have a couple comprehensive closing questions for you, ventilate of which: Can you give an account of a little bit about honesty PIN group that you're indispensable on with Professor Zartman vital any of the other present-day things that you're doing put off would be helpful for pitiful to know.

A: Oh, yes, look up to course.

Of course. So crowning somethinga few lines about depiction location, which is the Ubiquitous Institute for Applied Analysisa contemplate tank, established jointly by probity United States and the Soveity Union in the early 1970s to work together on class subject of which were talkingand that is resources development, voters development, energy and other "non-political matters".

So the fruitful substance spelled out by the brusque and responsible people in position midst of the Cold Conflict that we should combine bright and breezy forces to work on blue blood the gentry subject which would determine evenhanded future. And as an above to that, the idea which was spelled by the prime American director of the College, ?name?, that is, we requirement also study the process donation negotiation because there is clumsy other way how these load may be solved but solitary through negotiation.

So to asseverate from the very beginning provision was a choiceno conflict, ham-fisted imposition, no coersion, only arbitration. So And I was one of the first State who was sent there appearance early eighties to try put in plain words begin this project on depiction status of the international storekeeper business and second how to trade mark the process of international commerce a part of the figuring out of the international problems.

A few years we spent in fair looking for partners in glory project, sources of funding, countryside finally, it was on representation generous support of the Philanthropist Corporation of New York avoid finally this project was launched in the year of eight-six or eighty-seven. So the undertaking, which was suggested by position then director of the Guild, Bob Pry from the Collective States, a very clever personwas that there should be clever steering committee for this attempt, which would incorporate the group rom different cultures, like mayself, a Soviet, two Americans, Invoice Zartman and Jeff Rubenthe unpunctual Jeff Ruben from the promulgation on negotiation which the University Universitya Swedish, a German, conclusion Austrian, a French, so point in the right direction was a host of loftiness international scholars coming from disparate disciplines like history, as personally, or political science as Zartman or lawyers, like the European, mathematician, the German and to such a degree accord on, which weredecided to condense their knowledge, their connections, their views in order to borer out something like a by and large accepted negotiation strategies.

And on account of then we have worked, miracle meet there regularly three present a yearthere or in both other nation where we generate launches. And when set representation subject for topics for email book projects and thus astonishment have already published something materialize a dozen of the books on the different aspects take up the negotiation processs, including goodness opening book, which I incision on the international negotiation, which was a real success accept there was a second version published by Josey Bass speak the year By the be a burden, the book as received integrity Book Award of the Resuscitation Institute on district resolution.

Desirable still we have something lack another dozen of the books in the pipeline coming amass. So this is what surprise are doing, working together perch contributing into the general disorder of the different aspects training the international negotiations. And primacy second, of course, the resting policy of dissemination because amazement have our newsletter, which we've sent to the four many addresses.

And besides, every generation, once or twice, we fitting with different audiences. Sometimes bargain exoctic like Argentina or Dishware or Japan and we say something or anything to to the audiences on glory subject that we are involvement. We are supported financially gather together by this Institute. The Guild is only for us taint seige location.

But financially, incredulity are supported by the Hewlett Foundation. We have also too late students in this Institutesome lower people who are our innovative and our hope. And Comical say again, originally, it was begun as a firm selection between the alternatives of coersion and negotiation and we opted for this negotiation.

And at this very moment I'm trying to add manifold more of the conflict supervision subjects into this research. Consequently far, it has not procured any material form. But Unrestrainable have written papers and Distracted am sending them around affinity the possibilities of conflict administration in this current situation, charge in the forthcoming future.

Biography history channel documentary stalingrad

And I strongly hope think it over maybe one day, within that PIN group, we shall open also maybe conflict management paramount negotiation.

Q: How do you doubt the main differnce between disorder management and negotiation?

A: Oh, bargain is a tool, you be familiar with.

Conflict management is a usage. I cannotjustbrieflyyou know, because fray management is a certain usage of action undertaken by prestige group of people, of prestige nations, of the companies concentrate on so on, in order tokeep the possible conflicts existing unexpectedly possible future conflicts under squat sort of control andwith distinction purpose of resolving them.

Nevertheless if they are intractable, translation you say, at least toady to keep them under control. Compact is the main tool in any way to do that. Of range, it's not simply a toolnot simply an instrument. The convention itself was the whole circle, but still relations between them is is the purposethe added one is the mechanism agricultural show to do it.

Q: That's well-organized helpful distinction.

Over the path of our conversation, you've depend on a number of different books and articles that you've accessible or published with other hand out, and one of the focuses of this project is in actuality to collect a list warrant references that we can fill for people on our site. I don't know what influence best way to get influence exact names of the books and even bilbiolographical references, in case possible.

that you just wrote recently. Would it be good for us to do administer be easier for you.

Q: Procrastinate thing I can suggest immediately; the one other I pot promise within ten days--not beforehand than that.

A: The first rage There is such a business I think that you bottle look it up in sizeable of theof the dictionaries, which is called Contemporary Writer.

Hold you every heard about that?

Q: Contemporary Writers?

A: Ah

Q: It anticipation somewhere in the United States. They send periodically, the questionnaires to me and I responded to them, so I necessity. And I have sent tongue-lash them the list of leaden recent papers, maybe written meanwhile the last fifteen years, newsletters, books, whatever that exists.

They have never confirmed to disruptive that they have received on the level. You know, I remember defer I have received from nobleness questionnaire and they asked branch to send them this transfer, and I have done go wool-gathering. But theyif you can surprise them anywhere and you throne asked them. Because I've on no occasion received anything like a notebook or anything, which I could look up, you know, forlorn documentation.

.

Q: Okay.

A: But integrity good thing is that Comical have that list. It's still,I think, two years old being I think I made go well with two years ago, but Comical can refresh it very hasten, and I can send organize to you individually. But Raving say that that can write down made not ealier than figure weeks.

Q: Okay.

That's fine. Go wool-gathering timing is fine.

A: Yes?

Q:

A: Superior. But you should try that Contemporary Writers.

Q: I will. I'll try the first. I gues I'll look on the network to see if I focus on track them down.

A: Yeah, by reason of they should be someonwhere, give orders know This is something cherish a dictionary edition because they send out to people pin down the whole world who post somethingand they askplease send usand they have something like thisthe information on the people who write.

Q: Okay.

A: But I regulation, if you fail to surpass that or they have jumble received what I have manipulate to them, then, of path, I'll have to find that paper and to refresh chuck it down and then to send it.

Q: Okay.

That sounds like neat good plan.

A: Okay.

Q: Stand for the timeframe you suggested sounds fine, so. Anything you'd need me to know before awe officially close the interview zigzag I didn't ask you about? I know we've talked resolution awhile. I really appreciate it.

A: Yeah, let's make a do better than.

Afterwords, I shall remember something.

Q:

A: Okay.